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In-House Outliers: The Legal Operations Podcast

If you’re in legal operations, you’re an outlier. If you’re using legal tech, you’re an outlier.

In-House Outliers shares the stories and secrets of those challenging conventional wisdom of how corporate legal departments should operate. Join Brightflag co-founder Alex Kelly each week as he amplifies the voices of these enthusiasts and visionaries.


Listen on: Spotify | Apple Podcasts | Google Podcasts

Latest Episode

#42: Matilde Montanari

In this episode, Alex chats with Matilde Montanari, Legal Operations Officer @TomTom. Matilde discusses her path from lawyer to legal ops officer and the shift in mindset she had to take when she made the switch. She also gives great advice to any lawyers who want to make the same career transition.

#41: Mark Eldridge

In this episode, Alex chats with Mark Eldridge, Director of Legal Operations at Guardant Health. Mark discusses what it took to build his skill sets in legal operations, how to build relationships with your legal leadership team and the most impactful projects he’s worked on in his career.

More Episodes

#40: Mike Haven

In this episode, Alex chats with Mike Haven, Senior Director, Associate General Counsel and Head of Legal Operations at Intel. Mike started his career as a lawyer, but then when an opportunity into legal operations presented itself, he took a leap of faith and never looked back. In this episode, Mike shares how he navigated the change into legal operations, his battle against perfection, and the key elements to building a successful legal ops program.

#39: Tom Stephenson

In this episode, Alex sits down with Tom Stephenson, Director of Legal Operations at Credit Karma. Tom discusses his path from paralegal to legal ops leader, how he structures his team and the principles behind it, and his best pieces of advice to advance your career in legal operations.

#38: Ben Hayden

In this minisode, Alex talks to Ben Hayden, Vice President of Legal Operations at Cengage Group. Ben discusses why he joined Cengage Group, the most important things he looks for in a vendor and how to choose the right legal matter management software.

#37: An Trotter

In this episode, Alex interviews An Trotter, Senior Director of Operations, Office of the General Counsel at Hearst. An shares with us how she landed in legal ops, the different areas of focus in her legal ops career, and her best advice for those who want to get started in the industry.

#36: LaTrece Johnson

In this episode, Alex talks to LaTrece Johnson, Head of Legal Operations at Palo Alto Networks. LaTrace shares how she got started in legal operations, her most impactful projects at Adobe, and her thoughts on the future of the #legalops community.

#35: Anna Richards

In this episode, Alex talks to Anna Richards, Senior Legal Operations Manager at Zendesk. Anna, like most legal ops leaders, did not have a linear career path. She started her career in ediscovery, but then when an opportunity in legal operations presented itself, she took a chance and never looked back. Anna discusses why she transitioned into legal operations, how she has built a legal ops roadmap at Zendesk, and the most impactful projects she has worked on in her legal operations career.

#34: Heather Torres

In today’s episode, Alex talks to Heather Torres, Senior Legal Operation Manager at Sonnedix. Heather started her career as an attorney, but then when an opportunity into legal operations presented itself, she was intrigued and said yes. In this episode, you’ll learn about Heather’s current day-to-day in legal ops, how she develops a legal ops strategy and her advice for anyone wanting to get started on this career path.

#33: Colin Levy

In this episode, Alex sits down with Colin Levy, Director of Legal at Malbek. Colin started his career as in-house lawyer, but then decided to follow his passion for technology and moved into the world of legal tech. You’ll learn what sparked Colin’s interest in technology, why he chose to follow his passion into legal tech, and the important lessons that he learned along the way.

#32: Sharon Donnigan

In this minisode, Alex talks to Sharon Donnigan, Legal Operations Professional at Axiom. Sharon discusses what excites her most about legal operations, her thoughts on the legal operations community, and what she has learned from CLOC 2022!

#31: Kshitij Dua

In this mini-episode, Alex talks to Kshitij Dua, Head of Legal Operations at HashiCorp. Kshitij discusses how he found his way into legal operations, the importance of using empathy in his role and his major takeaways from CLOC 2022!

#30: Lucy Bassli

In this minisode, Alex talks to Lucy Bassli, Founder of InnoLaw Group. Lucy discusses her path from legal operations leader at Microsoft to founding her own consultancy, her beliefs on people and process while implementing technology, and what legal ops professionals can get out of a conference like CLOC!

#29: Evan Wong

In this minisode, Alex talks to Evan Wong, CEO of Checkbox. Evan discusses how legal teams are leveraging automation and technology, why he believes legal operations leaders are so important for driving change, and his major takeaways from CLOC.

#28: Alison English

In this minisode, Alex talks to Alison English, Legal Operations Manager at Rheem Manufacturing Company. Alison discusses her role at Rheem, why she came to CLOC 2022, and what she’s trying to achieve in the future for the legal function at Rheem!

#28: Alex Rosenrauch

In this minisode, Alex talks to Alex Rosenrauch, podcast host and Manager at PWC. Alex discusses how he got started in law, the catalyst for starting the Legal Ops podcast, and what motivated him to come to CLOC 2022!

#27: Jameson Monteiro

In this episode, Alex sits down with Jameson Monteiro, Head of Legal Operations at Assurant. Like most guests, Jameson didn’t have a linear path into legal operations. Jameson shares his remarkable story in which he started his career as an entrepreneur of an automobile export company. With determination and perseverance, that journey led him to a temp role at Assurant, and then ultimately, he was able to advance his way up to Head of Legal Operations. In this episode, Jameson discusses the importance of building relationships and trust with your CLO, the most impactful thing in his career, and how he was able to find his career calling in #legalops.

#26: Florence Chan

In this episode, Alex sits down with Florence Chan, who runs legal operations at Cloudflare. Florence started her career in big law as a Litigation Paralegal, but when she was presented with an opportunity as a Legal Operations Manager at Benefits Cosmetics, her journey turned in a new direction.

#25: Tiffany Brown

In this episode, Alex sits down with Tiffany Brown, an experienced legal operations leader. Tiffany started her career as a paralegal, but quickly her fascination and curiosity led her to a career in legal operations. In this episode, Tiffany shares her thoughts on networking, the necessity of “turning off” on a global team, and the lasting impact of the pandemic on the adoption of legal operations.

#24: Aline Bosteels

In this episode, Alex interviews Aline Bosteels, former Global Category Director Legal Services & Insurances at Philips. You’ll learn how Aline’s career evolved from entrepreneur to procurement manager, why lifelong learning is an addiction of hers, and the most important skill sets to be successful in a #legalops role.

#23: Sean Houston

In this episode, Alex interviews Sean Houston, Legal Operations Leader at The HEINEKEN Company. You’ll learn how Sean turned from sports broadcaster to legal operations leader, the most critical skillsets in his position, and why he feels it’s so important to create a tech roadmap at the start of a #legalops role.

#22: Liz Rancourt-Smith

In this episode, Alex interviews Liz Rancourt-Smith, Legal Operations Manager at Tilson Technology Management. Liz discusses early career lessons, the importance of making mistakes, and why she believes a non-traditional background has been her greatest asset.

#21: Jamie Ingles

In this episode, Alex interviews Jamie Ingles, Legal Operations Lead at Stripe. Jamie discusses why she joined Stripe’s legal team, the most critical skill sets in a legal ops role, and how prioritization is critical to her team’s success.

#20: Bill Novomisle

In this episode, Alex interviews Bill Novomisle, Director of Legal Operations at Cresco Labs. Bill discusses the path that led him to legal operations, his core areas of focus at Cresco Labs and the best pieces of advice he has received in his career.

#19: Zoe Baynes-Davidge

In this episode, Alex interviews Zoe Baynes-Davidge, Legal Operations Analyst at Ocado. Zoe discusses what attracted her to work at Ocado, why active listening is so important in her role and why she believes legal ops isn’t just a role for lawyers.

#18: Mateo Sanchez

In this episode, Alex interviews Mateo Sanchez, Head of Legal Operations at Outside. Mateo discusses the highs and lows of his career, the importance of aligning with your Chief Legal Officer and why he joined Outside’s legal team.

#17: Ashley Adams

In this episode, Alex interviews Ashley Adams, Director of Legal Operations at Contentful. Ashley discusses the path that led her into legal operations, why positivity is one of her guiding principles of leadership and the importance of mentors in her career.

#16: Colin McCarthy

In this episode, Alex interviews Colin McCarthy, CEO and Founder of Legal Operators. Colin discusses his journey into legal operations, why he created Legal Operators, and how to include diversity as a pillar within your legal ops function.

#15: Zachary Rosenblatt

In this episode, Alex interviews Zachary Rosenblatt, Legal Operations Senior Manager at The Kraft Heinz Company. Zachary discusses the career trajectory that led him into legal ops, the core areas of focus in his legal ops role, and the most impactful D&I projects he’s worked on.

#14: Morgan Smith

In this episode, Alex interviews Morgan Smith, Legal Operations Analyst at MongoDB. Morgan discusses her career journey in legal ops, her beliefs on the future of remote work in legal, and a simple trick to build your network with ease.

#13: Max Wang

In this episode, Alex interviews Max Wang, Head of Legal Operations at Waymo. Max discusses lessons learned early in his career, his approach when working with stakeholders and the core responsibilities in a legal ops role.

#12: Stephanie Hamon

In this episode, Alex interviews Stephanie Hamon, Head of Legal Operations at Norton Rose Fulbright. Stephanie discusses her journey into legal ops, her approach to change management, and how she creates a legal ops strategy.

#11: Jennifer McCarron

In this episode, Alex interviews Jennifer McCarron, Director of Legal Operations and Technology at Netflix. Jennifer discusses her philosophy of success, responses to failure, and the importance of putting the work into working relationships.

#10: Dr. Sinead Kane

In this episode, Alex interviews Dr. Sinead Kane, International Keynote Speaker on the topics of disability, law and policy. Dr. Sinead Kane shares her remarkable story into a career in law, the challenges that she faced, and what her internal motivators are that drive her to pursue her goals.

#9: Brenda Hansen and Liz Lugones

In this week’s episode, Alex interviews Brenda Hansen and Liz Lugones from UpLevel Ops. Brenda and Liz both share how they got started in their legal operations journey. They also share the importance of mentorship in their careers, and what it takes for legal operations professionals to be successful in 2022.

#8: Michael Dineen

In today’s episode, Alex interviews Mike Dineen, Director of Data Science at Brightflag about his unconventional path into #AI. In this episode Mike shares how his perspective on the legal industry before joining Brightflag and what interested him to work in this field. He also shares the impact that #AI is going to have on the next generation of lawyers and the 3 key pillars that he used to build out the data science function at Brightflag.

#7: Sheila Dusseau

In this week’s episode, Alex interviews Sheila Dusseau, Head of Global Legal Operations at Ferring Pharmaceuticals. Sheila discusses how she got into legal operations and how her experience in finance has been critical to the success in her career. She also discusses why it’s important to make mistakes and how saying “I don’t know” has been a powerful piece of advice she has received in her career.

#6: Don Keller

In this episode, Alex interviews Don Keller, Founder of Joinder. Don shares the reasons he became a lawyer, the benefits Joinder has provided to legal teams, and some of Joinder’s key accomplishments so far.

#5: Mary O’Carroll

In this episode, Alex interviews Mary O’Carroll, Chief Community Officer at Ironclad. Mary needs no introduction, as she is a powerhouse in the legal operations industry. Mary talks about her career path and her advice for legal operations professionals to grow within the industry. She also speaks to what has driven the massive growth of legal operations today.

#4: Aine Lyons

In this episode, Alex interviews Aine Lyons, VP and Deputy General Counsel, Global Legal Operations at VMware. Aine talks about how she found her calling in legal ops and the biggest lessons she learned throughout her career. She also shares the qualities that she thinks make a great legal ops professional.

#3: Mike Naughton

In episode three, Alex interviews Mike Naughton, Vice President of Marketing at xMentium and a pioneer in the legal ops industry. Mike shares his path, discussing his early learnings with working with lawyers and the DNA that makes a forward thinking general counsel. He also discusses how to use other industries as inspiration to solve the major problems that legal ops professionals face today.

#2: Tim Casey

In episode two, Alex interviews Tim Casey, General Counsel and Chief Compliance Officer of Numotion. Tim discusses his journey, sharing why he waited to go to law school and how self reflection and learning has been a tool that has helped him to build his career path in law.

#1: Stephanie Corey

In this first episode, Alex interviews Stephanie Corey, Co founder of Uplevel Ops and CLOC. You’ll learn from Stephanie about her successes and lessons learned in legal operations and what she thinks are the most important qualities to building a successful career in legal ops.